Doubly so when the poster and the author of the comment being discussed are both male, and the subject of the blog, is feminism and its relation to socialism.

When you say “socialism is basically about economics” I think you have what Lenin would have called an “economistic” conception of socialism. Surely what defines us as revolutionaries in the tradition of Marx is that we think the working class movement is the force that can unite, deepen and fructify all struggles against oppression (women’s liberation, gay rights, against racism, national liberation etc etc etc). It’s not only a question of self-organisation of the oppressed - although I favour this - it’s a question of the workers’ movement as whole giving space to and championing all progressive struggles.

Somewhere Lenin says something like: “When a worker supports a strike they are a trade unionist, when they support a student being beaten up by the police, then they become a socialist”. The same goes for the battle for women’s liberation today.

Look at the US after the World War One when, under the influence of the Russian revolution, the (pre-Stalinist) Communist Party totally destroyed the previous American socialist tradition of being indifferent or even hostile to black people fighting racism and became the most ardent champions of black self-defence and total equality. That is our tradition!

I read your piece with much interest. My political experiences include both the revolutionary Left and the Labour Party. The wonders of entryism. Anyway, my more positive experiences was actually in the Labour Party during the 80s where I was active in women’s sections. I found the atmosphere much more conducive and the level of activism was higher. Where have all the women gone? I am still a member of the Labour Party but I am not active probably because there aren’t any women’s sections (well not in my area) and activism is at an all time low. I won’t go into my own views on New Labour except to say they have sucked the Socialism out of the party.

I also agree that Mark Seddon is totally wrong on women-only shortlists. In a perfect world we wouldn’t have them but how else will you get representation from women.

I also describe myself as Socialist feminist as I believe that capitalism and patriarchy are interwoven. The revolutionary left obviously recognises capitalism but not patriarchy and to even argue the existance you are labelled as a separatist. When it come to analysing the different strands of feminism the revolutionary left prefers to lump them together. The rather analytically crude, economistic and reductionistic understanding of women’s oppression is the de rigueur on the revolutionary Left. It never ceases to amaze me how appalling the revolutionary left is in dealing with individual oppressive behaviour i.e. sexism, sexual harassment, rape, domestic violence and so on. Just don’t expect support or condemnation of the behaviour as you will be sorely disappointed.

And they wonder why they are so male dominated.

Yes, there are differences between socialism and feminism - but they are also inextricably (sp?) linked and I really don’t believe you can be one without the other - though it does bring up the interesting question of whether or not men can be feminists…

“women’s oppression is a result of both economic and cultural forces (so) a dualist perspective (socialist feminism), which examines both the public and private sphere, is required to work towards liberation”

I agree. I guess this is what I meant when I said we should try and resurrect socialist feminism. I think its a terrible pity if a few really irritating men on the revolutionary left manage to put women off socialism. As far as I’m aware socialism was very influential in british second wave feminism and I think we need to go back to this, not least to combat the individualistic “me me me me me” attitude now associated with western feminism (I would actually disagree that this meets the definition of feminism in the true sense of the word, but that’s another post).

“But, Winter, I can’t agree with the point that gender oppression is more fundamental than class and income oppression.”

Hmm, well I guess I don’t think it’s more fundamental. I accept that privileged rich women have a lot more opportunities than poor women everywhere, so I’ll concede that point. But I do tend to the radical feminist view that, on a worldwide scale, gender oppression is one of the most fundamental oppressions and if we don’t address it we can’t achieve a proper revolution.

“And I’d like us to learn from the left’s values of solidarity, moving away from the idea that feminism is about individual women being empowered, about individual women getting into positions of importance. The be-all and end-all is not me achieving all that I can achieve”

Yes, again, I agree completely!

Doing away away with capitalism would be good, but I do still think we need to try and do away with sexism and homophopbia at the same time, not afterwards. Otherwise I would be very disappointed.