Young people are our future
My heart sinks when I hear this phrase at the start of a speech, usually spoken by a concerned worthy, often as a prelude for excuses for not doing something or ignoring the views young people have expressed. Unfortunately, it was a phrase I heard rather too much at the conference in Budapest. Not only does it undervalue young people now, seeing them only in terms of their future role as adults, workers, parents and consumers and not in terms of their current abilities, it is also shortsighted, as although the particular young person in front of you will grow up, young people are a constant - there will always be young people.
If there was ever a hard-to-reach group that should be ripe for engagement through e-democracy and for whom lack of skills or intimidation by the method should not be a problem, it is young people. And e-democracy advocates seem to take the engagement of young people for granted just because they are using e rather than traditional means.
The lineup for the session on Engaging Young People was as follows:
Chairman: Peter Lauritzen, Head of Youth Department, Council of Europe
Kate Parish, Founder of UK Youth Parliament
Shane McCracken, Gallomanor, UK
Laura McVeigh, UK Youth
Tom Gaskin, Youth Worker for Norfolk Blurb Website Project
Notice the omission - no young people on the panel, and some dreadful worthy chairing. There were about ten young people in the front row, but at no point were they more than participants. We heard from four enthusiastic and engaged adults about how to engage young people, as the experts - already engaged young people - looked on. Most of the young people present are MYPs (members of the youth parliament) and those of you who are regular readers will know that I’ve in the past expressed concern about the inclusiveness of the UKYP concept. After meeting the young people - all of whom were without exception interested, articulate and great fun to be around, don’t mistake me on that point - I still have a concern about how representative the organisation is in terms of class and background. In the words of Shane McCracken, who gave by far the best presentation on the Gallomanor projects “I’m a councillor, get me out of here” and “lifeswap“, the young people in the room were “shinys” - already engaged young people.
Where were the groups of young people up at the front, presenting to the audience through drama, dance and art? Where were the carefully-prepared hard-to-reach young people, supported by their youth workers to bring their points of view to the table? I’ve taken teenage mums to meet ministers and speak at party conference, supported by the excellent work of YWCA’s youth workers - it’s hard, but it’s not that hard, and it’s not like cash was a problem at this conference. Don’t get me wrong - I enjoyed this session a lot, and it was one of the ones circled in my agenda to attend from the start. It was just a shame that the presenters talked about the importance of young people taking control of the agenda and having thechance to meaningfully participate in the design, delivery and evaluation of projects aimed at engaging them, but there was precious little of it going on.
UPDATE: judge the session for yourself - audio of the main speakers is available here.
No young people on the panel? This will no doubt come as a surprise to those present as Tom Gaskin is just 17 years old and clearly a member of the youth brigade. Furthermore, what is the definition of youth? If we take the definition of the Council of Europe or EU, the panel actually had other members of youth present or if we extend it to other groups (the Young Conservatives?), other members of the panel probably also qualified.
It is also interesting to note that there was a great deal of dialogue at the session in which all the Youth Parliamentarians got to speak, particularly on your problems in Oxford and the situation of failing to have a Youth Parliament member elected from the area. Other members of youth who made contributions included Agnes representing Hungary.
Just because there was not every member of society and the youth community present does not mean that their views or needs were not represented. If we are able to encourage Governments at the national and local level, in partnership with NGOs, to put the tools in place to facilitate involvement of all, then we will be well on the way to building a healthy society and a stronger representative democracy.
“Young people are the future”, along with many other groups and communities too numerous to mention.
I look forward to working with you, members of the UKYP and lots of others to make this dream a reality.
i couldn’t agree more. as a former youth mayor i encountered the same problems with shinys who became too focused on the institution. something i always strived to avoid.
And the old gem ‘young people are our future’ you wouldn’t believe how many times i heard that in the recent by-election here in blaenau gwent.
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http://www.lukejyoung.blogspot.com - Live from the Socialist Fortress
For sure, Dylan, and we don’t disagree. But there is a difference between having young people there because of their jobs, and young people there as young people. For example, I work in an organisation that works with young women aged 11-30. By that definition, I’m in their target group, but it’s a cop-out to put me, as a staff member, on a panel to reflect the views of the young women for and with whom we work.
You pick up the question I asked of the MYPs, which elicited a great deal of engagement from them; I asked it precisely because I was cross that they hadn’t had the chance to participate.
I’d be really happy to be part of showcasing e-participation with young people in the future - I’m not interested in criticising the hard work that went into the conference without a sincere desire to make it better.
I completely agree with the concerns you raise. I myself was an MYP and was actively involved in UKYP for a number of years. The experience both inspired me in that it showed the opportunity that politics has to change people’s lives but at the same time it was frequently dispirating coming up against the failures within the organisation.
First - the positives. The organisation provides a great educational experience for 400 plus young people involving them in the political process. This then has ripple effects across the country as MYPs engage with young people and attempt to strength local participation networks. For example while I was an MYP I pushed Leeds City Council to set up a Youth Council which is now up and running and doing some great things. It also has a pretty good record of inclusion - half MYPs are female and about 20% come from ethnic minorities.
Now - the negatives. As you suggest the organisation is not young person led. While I was involved I represented my region on the national committee that made many of the decisions within UKYP. However during that time I was constantly battling to get young people making decisions rather than adults in the central office team and the Board of Trustees. To my mind this had something to do with the individuals involved but is also an endemic problem. UKYP will always need adults working full time to run whereas young people will pass through quickly increasing the chances of adults taking more of the decisions. It’s other big weakness is its format of operation - it lacks imagination in the way it involves young people and tries to mirror ‘adults’ too much.
My view is that UKYP is a valuable organisation which faces a number of problems - the first is simply funding. My vision of a Youth Parliament is one in which every young person has a vote and a chance to stand for election and is supported in their role if elected. A well funded Youth Parliament would prove a powerful lobby for young people - needed more than ever today - and would potentially reengage more people with the political process. An example is the campaign for a national young people’s transport concessions card that can be used on all public transport. However this has to be backed up with local forums as the vast majority of change is achieved locally. Finally the Youth Parliament should not be seen as the only means of engagement. It is true that it will largely attract those who are most articulate - just as Westminster does - and that there are other effective ways of engaging with young people who would find it difficult to get their views expressed in UKYP. Governments and councils should not see one approach as being ‘better’ than another - they all have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Sorry for such a long post but youth participation is something I’m passionate about and I think for all its flaws the Youth Parliament has a lot to offer despite its flaws.
Hello all,
I wasn’t involved in the planning or set-up of the panel discussion, but agree that having young people on the panel would certainly have made sense!
In terms of ‘hard-to-reach’ groups, yes, it’s something we continually need to address, and it’s something about which I am particularly passionate. We’re delighted to have sought and received funds to employ a Gypsy and Travellers Participation Officer, to work with this seriously marginalised group of young people and ensure they can play a full role in our organisation and the networks it supports.
We have also established emerging partnerships with the Foyer Federation to include the views of young homeless people, and Mencap, both to train MYPs how to include the views of young people with a learning disability, and hopefully to encourage those young people to develop a constituency and get elected themselves.
In strategic terms, we are piloting video consultation as a way of ensuring the views of many groups of young people can be included. UKYP rightly follows a democratic process, but we can and should develop the tools to ensure that all elected MYPs represent the voices of their communities in appropriate depth.
In London MYPs have produced a fabulous video on knife and gun crime (to be launched in October) that gives voice to young offenders (including those currently in prison), young victims, and those who carry weapons. All suggested, led and delivered by MYPs, acting as that vital conduit between young people and the adults who can influence their lives.
In the West Midlands and the North West, MYPs have also been trained and provided with equipment to enable them to capture the views of ‘non-shiny’ young people and ensure that they are truly representative of their communities. We’re looking to seek further funds to roll this out in other regions, too.
We also recently undertook some in-depth work with young Muslims in Blackburn and Bolton. We worked in partnership with the Commission for Racial Equality to develop the proposals and were supported by the Home Office’s young people’s task force to agree the plans and deliver a pilot. The young people we worked with found it to be a rewarding and inspiring experience and we are working to extend the project this year.
Engagement and Diversity is one of the five key strategic themes of our Operational Plan, so expect much more news here. There is so much to do to get it right, but we are certainly trying our best to get the systems and partnerships right.
Kieran, you are of course right that more funding is needed. We now are pushing hard on a long-term funding strategy which focuses on government departments, trusts and corporates (we recently supported young people to co-host the Business in the Community Impact Awards: http://www.bitc.org.uk/awards/index.html to open up this sector – and yes, young people were the ones doing the talking, as with all of our events). The increased resources that we know we can bring in will enable a massive jump in our activity, inclusiveness, reach and impact. So watch this space.
Of greater concern, Kieran, is your statement that the views of young people weren’t listened to in the course of UKYP activity. I realise we still have major work to do to ensure the decision-making structures are robust, so if you can give me any particular instances via email, that would really help us address the issue. Many thanks.
Having said all that, there is still an enormous amount to do, so all ideas and suggestions are welcome!!!
Best wishes,
Andy Hamflett
Chief Executive, UK Youth Parliament
I felt quite angry when I first viewed your Blog on ‘Young people are our future’, mainly because of Dylan’s attempt to brand me as ‘just 17’ (I’m actually 19). For him to use that as an attempt to argue the case that young people were involved and participating within the workshops does seem to be a bit of a cop out as you stated.
As you also pointed out there is a difference between having young people there because of their jobs, and young people there as young people. I am employed to work with young people primarily aged 13 – 19 so I am in a similar position as you are within your young woman’s group. I work with an age range that I myself could fit into and I agree that it would be a copout to put me, as a staff member, on a panel to reflect the views of the young people for and with whom I work with BUT that wasn’t what I was there to do. I was there because of my job and the work that I had done. In my presentation I was able to present feedback received from young people and at no stage did I ever intend to represent young people. However it would appear than that I did not make this clear in my presentation… strange when you think I opened with that statement ‘As my role as a Youth Worker…’ There is obviously some confusion around this topic on all sides.
I do believe it is a shame that you are focussing just on the fact that young people were not involved in the presentations; it’s shadowing the good work that was done. I do share you views on young people being involved particularly within the UK Youth Parliament presentation. The fact that the UKYP’s were sitting in the front row but did not participate at all in that presentation still stuns me but you will have to quiz Kate as to why that was. I do believe there was a plan for some UKYP’s to talk about their experiences, however due to some speeches over running quite considerably (including the UKYP presentation) they were unable to do so. It’s strange again that they had to do it separately but there you go…
I am disappointed to find that you felt your only option to offer feedback was through the use of your Blog after the event had taken place. It would have been useful if you had voiced your concerns during the question time after the presentations or throughout the duration of the Symposium but for whatever reason you did not have the opportunity to do so. I must admit that the format of the workshop is not a format that I tend to chose, particularly when discussing issues such as ‘Engaging Young People’. Maybe at future events there could be more flexibility on how speakers could present and gain feedback from participants instead of having to use a standard format with a presentation and then question time at the end of all the presentations.
I did feel I was taking a risk in just asking participants to get off their seats and interact! The conference workshops had all been very formal throughout (with the exception of Ravi’s) and there was me asking participants to be honest about why they were there and whether they felt they had got out of it so far what they had hoped to get from the session. This was something I didn’t see much of in any of the other workshops. To me using different mechanisms to engage participants and gain feedback is just standard ‘Youth Work practice’ as is engaging ALL young people. I must admit I am sick to death with these hideous terms such as ‘shinys’ and ‘hard to reach’. Interesting when the term ‘shiny’ was borrowed from colleagues with the Active Citizenship team that I am based in. When I questioned my colleague they explained that the term and chart was created to battle the term ‘hard to reach’ and the idea that we should be focusing on reaching the ‘hard to reach’.
Why is it that society insists on labelling younger people and finding definitions for the term ‘youth’ and ‘young people’?
As a ‘younger person’ and ‘employee’, I regularly battle with being patronised and being labelled. I agree with Dylan on the fact that there is confusion over what the term ‘youth’ and ‘young person’ means. It seems there is such variety wherever you go. I know for a fact that within the Local Authority I work in, and I guess that there is a similar issue in other Local Authorities that once labelled by colleagues and organisations within the Local Authorities as a ‘young person’ you are treated in a certain way because of that label. In many cases this can work in your favour as many people feel that it is cutting edge to involve ‘young people’ (the fact that it has been happening for years is another story!) but it can also be a bad thing as many individuals and organisations are only happy to take onboard your comments on what is seen as ‘youth’ issues. It can also imply that you are somewhat different to the professionals that work within the organisations. My dilemma is that I see myself as being young but I am also an employee and therefore it is hard for me to establish myself as a professional when I am labelled as a ‘young person’. How long do you think it will be before I lose this label?
Maybe I should lead on a campaign to label those who do not see themselves as ‘young people’ and are not labelled as ‘young people’ constantly by their employers and colleagues?
What awful terms could I come up with that could label those not considered to be young? I believe that it is the case there is a missing set of labels for this group of people and is it up to me to suggest a set of labels and values that we should greet and treat these people with? Of course it isn’t. No one should have the power to suggest labels for individuals.
Why cant people just treat people as individuals and not feel the need to brand each other? Why cant people get to know individuals before they prejudge someone with the term ‘young person’. At the end of the day I believe it is because of the individuals own insecurities and prejudices and their need to categorise people. This is making society very difficult to live in and making the lives of those who categorise people difficult. If people didn’t have it in their heads that all people with hoodies on are dangerous and potential yobs or muggers than people would feel much safer and enjoy the walk home! These people need to talk to these people before they label them you never know you might actually find out that they share very similar traits.
I would be interested to hear your views on which of these categories you would label yourself as belonging to and why. Were you or are you still a ‘shiny’ a ‘grey’ or a ‘hard to reach?’ And what do you believe me to be?
Tom - I shoud have said that I have a lot of respect for the work you’ve done on Norfolk blurb, and have been bending the ear of the staff developing Oxford city’s new youth website on the subject! I had a quick skim around the site at the weekend, and it looks like a great resource.
I was definitely a “shiny” as a kid, and well, I probably am now too - I mean, councillor at 26?!
I am concerned about people’s concern about the ‘inclusiveness’ of the Youth Parliament — there was a broad mix represented and, as you say, they were all extremely eloquent. The ones I spoke to were also interesting and friendly to talk to.
I do agree, though, that ‘Young people’ speeches all too often sound patronising and your word, “worthy” says it all. I feel that represent the UK Youth presentation particularly.
I admit I started out being cynical about Life Swap but think that may be one of the most interesting programmes that was mentioned there.
On Tom Gaskin, though, I felt his presentation was excellent starting, as it did, with a voting with your feet exercise that really woke up the attendees. Tom’s work is valued by all the Youth Parliament attendees and his work with Norfolk Blurb speaks for itself.
On the Youth Parliament as Andy Hamflett says, it would have been a good idea to hear from the MYPs especially as they were so eager to involve themselves in all aspects of the Symposium. One of the speakers at the conference would have, were I under 18, put me off involvement in the Youth Parliament…
What a shame this level of discussion wasn’t reached at the conference.
I’d like to make a couple of points about labeling.
Firstly: “shiny” is not meant to be derogatory but I suspect in this country it gets taken that way (I suspect in the US it would be quite a compliment - enthusiasm seems to be more acceptable there). If we didn’t have keen and enthusiastic people nothing would happen. The group we label “shiny” make things happen. We want MORE of them. But we need to recognise that not everyone falls into that category all of the time.
Second point: I was using the term “shiny” in the context of democratic engagement. Those MYP’s in the front row are probably “shinys” in that context but I would guess that in other context’s some may be be pretty unforthcoming. Other young people in other circumstances may well be the “shinys”.
Thirdly: Labels. Yes, everyone hates labels. They are inaccurate, self-fulfilling, patronising, and divisive. Everyone is different and evryone is an individual but to enable us (at least us marketers) to understand people better we need to create groupings and label them. Otherwise we just can’t handle it. I used three groups which is far too simplistic but at least it is better than two (or one)!
Finally: Young People. Awful label. But better than children, kids or youth. What would be better? Someone please let us know.
ABF: Antonia is right to make her comments here in here blog. And right to allow dissenting views in the comments. It is a chance for rational discussion of the matter and better for that discussion to occur here than in a few private meeting around the country. I shall link to this page from the Gallomanor blog. Would it be of interest to Blurb readers? Or MYP’s in general?
Budapest Bulletin II - continued…
One of the discussions that should have occurred at the event is now happening on the blog of the lovely Antonia Bance. I met Antonia at the event. She is a Councillor in Oxford, new to the job and comes…
Budapest Continued…
I’ve now caught up on my sleep from Budapest, but not my thoughts.
I have two over-riding themes left over from the event. Firstly was listening to Etienne Chouard speak about his experience as a blogger gathering support for his view of the Eur…
I would echo the point that the debate is continuing to take place and this is very positive stuff irresoective of the comments.
In terms of the comments, I am both heartened and at the same time concerned. Firstly it is good that such events provide a stimulus to take forward our concerns and issues. However it is clearly an error on my part not to have facilitated more deliberative discussion or to have put in place a mechanism for that to take place post conference.
I am looking forward to receiving a hundred and one comments once the opinion seeking evaluation goes out to all participants. Feedback, no matter how damning is positive if it is taken onboard and used accordingly.
Finally, a huge apology to Tom. I am guilty of exactly the very behavioural issues that I was attempting to overcome and do not want to either appear patronising or seemingly placing people in their societal box.
What a shame this level of discussion wasn’t reached at the conference.
You must have been at the wrong table in the bar on Wednesday evening!
Gavin,
I meant in the main sessions, not the drinking sessions